題:
為什麼斯大林對1941年6月的德國襲擊感到驚訝?
shro
2016-08-01 01:45:20 UTC
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Although he was warned by many, including Churchill, of the forthcoming German attack on 22 June, Stalin did not believe those warnings and was surprised when the attack started. I believe the question of why this happened has been researched by historians. Is there any recently published work on this question? Is there some kind of agreement among historians to explain why Stalin chose to ignore all warnings?

最簡單的答案是斯大林本人被“誤導了”。紅軍正準備部署並準備在德國入侵前夕發動進攻……所以問題不應該是“為什麼斯大林感到驚訝”(儘管確實如此),而是“為什麼蘇聯軍隊?”斯大林下令許多指揮官視線擊中……特別是,儘管並非僅僅圍繞著涉及德國陸軍集團中心的行動。
那是垃圾蘇沃洛夫被人以任何方式捏造偽造的文件,斯大林對德國的入侵警告做出了回應,處決了任何將其舉為英國間諜的人。
九 答案:
PhillS
2016-08-01 14:39:22 UTC
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大衛·格蘭茨(David Glantz)在他的《巴巴羅薩:1941年希特勒對俄羅斯的入侵》中提到了幾個促成因素。協議。這是通常被帶出的最主要武器,但不是全部。

  • 當德軍開始在蘇維埃邊境建立軍隊時,德國告訴蘇維埃,這是為演習進行入侵英國遠離潛在的英國觀察。德軍對南斯拉夫和希臘的入侵也為德軍進入東方提供了一個合理的理由。
  • 斯大林認為,希特勒過於理性,無法對付蘇軍,但並沒有消滅英軍。西方。希特勒原來並不那麼理性。
  • 斯大林曾期望並可能在1942年與德國發生戰爭,而且人類傾向於確認偏見:尋找支持我們先入之見的證據
  • 斯大林的大掃除不僅影響了武裝部隊,而且還影響了情報機構,這些機構在體制上缺乏經驗和準備。他們給斯大林的報告傾向於根據他的先入之見加以按摩:對德國可能進行侵略的證據被輕描淡寫;強調了德軍錶現出克制的例子。告訴斯大林他不喜歡的事情不是提高生活的舉動,這會扭曲情報,以增強他不希望立即發動進攻的希望。
  • 在1941年5月,柏林和俄克拉荷馬州議會鼓勵有傳聞說柏林打算要求改變蘇聯與德國之間的協議。這鼓舞了人們的信念,即在任何攻擊之前都會有最後通atum作為藉口。
  • 早期,關於德國意圖的準確警告以5月15日作為開始日期,這確實是德國最初的計劃。南斯拉夫和希臘的入侵最終推遲了巴巴羅薩,這使實際提供準確信息的特工聲名狼藉。報告了幾個更具體的日期,並且也沒有發生任何事,因此發生了“哭狼的男孩”的場景,在該場景中,德國在特定日期發動襲擊的反复警告都被證明是錯誤的,再次破壞了即將發生的襲擊的報導。
  • 在活動結束後很容易找出本應警告蘇聯的情報。在確定時間之前,要確定您應該相信的許多對立智能中的哪些是錯誤信息或只是不准確(或者在更改計劃之前是準確的),要困難得多。查看當時可供斯大林使用的信息,也許讓他在1941年6月完全被驚呆了並不奇怪,儘管他的一廂情願也是其促成因素之一。

    對於第3點,有一種理論認為希特勒不認為英國是一個根深蒂固的敵人,可以通過談判實現和平,但是到1941年(或者實際上是1939年末),英國的情緒已經變得不利於他進行談判。如果這些理論有真相,那就可以解釋為什麼希特勒在大約1941年至1943年的戰略計劃中不理會英國,直到從海峽對岸開始發生真正的大規模入侵的威脅開始變得現實,並且意大利被擊倒。
    這不僅僅是一個“理論”,而是整個思想。德國迫不及待地想要等到“已經擺脫了西方的英國”。德國渴望獲得許多重要資源-石油,金屬,煤炭,食品。坐鎮東方而與英國一決高下(在清洗之後,俄羅斯獲得了力量),德國本來就無權與俄羅斯作戰。我對希特勒在進攻俄羅斯時是“非理性”的(在互聯網上經常重複出現)這一觀點表示異議。確實,這是德國贏得戰爭的唯一也是唯一的機會。
    有趣的是,人們對“海獅行動”以及德國人如何征服/佔領整個英國充滿了歡笑。 *那從來都不是計劃。*他們所希望的只是迫使英國退出戰爭,所以他們只需要擔心東部前線。
    大衛·格蘭茨(David Glantz)聲稱蘇聯沒有看到襲擊即將來臨,這是完全錯誤的。對於基輔的反攻,紅軍有一個絕妙的計劃,由於其規模,規模,速度,驚喜,戰略眼光和戰術優勢,它在“史無前例的最偉大的戰鬥”即布羅迪戰役中完全失敗了。當與伊拉克1的喬治·HW布什不同時,德國軍隊搞砸了,他們未能在8月中旬之前停止前進。到那時,所有政治和軍事目標均已實現。沒有“紅軍”了。
    @user14394:“到那時,所有政治和軍事目標均已實現。” -[不是。](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-A_line)
    -1
    在1941年8月之後,紅軍根本不可能對第三帝國發動進攻。戰略暫停直到德國人實際上在莫斯科之門被擊敗時才發生。如果有這樣的話,那就停下來,因為“我們現在不能再前進了”,而事實上德國從來沒有這樣做過。從此以後...
    @user14394:“ 1941年8月以後,紅軍根本不可能發動攻勢。” -紅軍於1941年12月5日發動了反攻,消除了對莫斯科的威脅,並一直延續到1942年1月初,獲得了250公里的領土。你在說什麼
    axsvl77
    2016-08-01 04:53:38 UTC
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    I don't know a ton about this topic, but in Molotov Remembers, a reprint of a bunch of conversations with Molotov in the 70s and 80s, the interviewer asks a lot of questions about this topic.

    Molotov said that Stalin knew there would be war with Hitler, and the whole point of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was to stall for time and prepare, and that Stalin felt the country needed two more years before the USSR was ready. Molotov makes clear that all of the ruling circle knew that the Nazis were enemies, and that they knew an attack was eminent. Molotov laughed at the idea that Stalin naively thought that Hitler could be trusted to keep the terms of the Pact - indeed he points out that Stalin trusted no one, even Molotov himself!

    So why was the Soviet Union "caught by surprise" when the Germans attacked? Molotov says that Stalin was primarily worried about an anti-USSR German/British alliance, and that Stalin sent orders to his troops specifically to make sure that Germany was the clear aggressor. The orders specified that there was to be no military response to anything the Germans did, except from Stalin himself.

    Prior to the invasion, there was a number of border skirmishes and false alarms. Molotov says they were worried about being baited by Hitler into escalating the war, and thus be blamed for its start. The orders helped delay the start of the war by weeks or months. He also mentioned the British intelligence report and that they felt it was something of a joke, that "how could we not know the invasion was eminent? And how could we trust the British?"

    Molotov then goes on to call Stalin a genius for this tactic, because:

    1. The delayed the start of the war allowed winter to interrupt the German invasion, ultimately preventing defeat.
    2. That showing that Germany was the aggressor split the German/British/capitalist alliance, and even causing the counter-intuitive US/British/Soviet alliance. Molotov states that receiving material help from the US was unthinkable in the 1930s, and that only Stalin could have conceived of this plan.

    Just to be clear, I have not read enough about this subject to give a full answer, having only read Molotov's biased opinion. I am not sure I fully buy his opinion, considering what he said about the Holodomor. However, I feel he is correct in stating that the USSR would have lost if the invasion had started even 1 month earlier. I also liked his point about how odd the idea of an alliance with the British was.

    On another note, it was interesting to hear his first hand account of what all the major actors in WWII were like personally; he didn't like Ribbentrop very much!

    Errr ....由於“表明德國是侵略者”,因此沒有“分裂”的“德國/英國/資本主義聯盟”。到那時,英國已經與德國交戰了近兩年。這些“莫洛托夫對話”中有更嚴重的怪異事物,但那確實是最重要的……
    @DevSolar在當今時代,要說服斯大林相信英國人是他的朋友可能很難。在他們成為盟友的1940年代,可能會更加艱難。儘管如此,我同意你的看法,正如我在回答中所說,莫洛托夫的態度古怪。
    -1
    這與“不將英國人確定為蘇維埃的敵人”有關。這是關於考慮將已經交戰了兩年的兩個國家結盟...
    因此,我們了解到,莫洛托夫是不可信任的,而政治家在發生嚴重錯誤後解釋自己的身份也不可信任。都沒有資格成為新新聞。
    我想知道,在1940年初,薩姆納·威爾斯(Sumner Welles)在羅馬,柏林,巴黎和倫敦進行的盛大巡迴演出時,蘇聯人受到芬蘭人的鞭打時,是否可能不會給斯大林帶來不祥的感覺。他當然很快就與芬蘭人達成了和平!更不用說1941年5月希特勒的得力助手魯道夫·赫斯飛往英國的一次歡樂飛行
    o.m.
    2016-08-01 10:22:19 UTC
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    Stalin received a large number of contradictory puzzle pieces. He and his intelligence analysts believed the information which suggested no attack yet and disbelieved the information which suggested an immediate attack.

    • Stalin and his immediate circle must be blamed for creating a dysfunctional intelligence system, where analysts could not contradict the preconceived notions of the boss. Compare the recent Gulf War intelligence failure.
    • Germany had a rather chaotic system of making policy, which explains why it was difficult to discern. That explanation falls flat in the last days before the attack.
    shro
    2016-08-02 01:50:22 UTC
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    I have read all the interesting answers and I want to propose a somewhat different way to look at this problem. By the way, this mistake of Stalin had cost millions of lives so the question is really important.

    I believe, as did Molotov who experienced it firsthand, that Stalin was a genius of the first caliber. An evil genius, surely, but a political genius like no other. He controlled everything, he saw further and deeper than everybody and he was a practical and extremely ruthless leader and organizer. Even Churchill, who hated communism deeply, spoke of Stalin in such terms.

    Stalin had the best intelligence service ever. Communists and communist sympathysers were everywhere and many of them were Comintern agents. He had informers in the German foreign office and General staff of the army. He was well informed on the German economy, the size of its army, its armour, the size of its air-force (Luftwaffe). He knew very well that the German tanks are greatly inferior to the Russian tanks. And he believed, crucially, that for Hitler to attack Russia would be suicidal. In this he was right of course, but still it was close. There were moments in 1941 and the summer of 42 when many in the west and perhaps also in Russia thought that the Wehrmacht is winning.

    So why did he make his awful error? Hitler's chain of successes, culminating in the easy defeat of the British and French in 1940 left an impression in Stalin's cunning and calculating mind. "Perhaps the guy is not just a fanatical ideologue and adventurous gambler. He clearly has an excellent army so one can assume that his great gambles were based on a rational calculation". If so then Hitler would surely understand that attacking Russia is too dangerous and could even be suicidal!

    So, Stalin's mistake was, in my opinion, that he gave Hitler too much credit. They were both representatives of the devil on earth but Stalin was by far the more able man.

    Finally I would like very much to know what you think of my suggestions. I have been pondering this for a long time and am eager to discuss the matter.

    如果斯大林認為蘇聯強大到足以擊退德國的進攻,我會感到驚訝。儘管經歷了幾十年的密集經濟發展,蘇聯在1941年仍然是輕量級工業。儘管如此,我沒有任何數據。
    沒事如果您讀過斯大林格勒之前的文章,將軍們會說服斯大林進行縱深防禦,而不是像往常一樣站立。我相信可能是Red Orchestra向他們介紹了該計劃,但是正如我記得所讀,這是他們第一次受到重視。更不用說他的許多活動,例如擊潰紅軍的高級指揮,幾乎使他輸了。這個人很擅長做一個邪惡的獨裁者,但是稱他為天才實在是太誇張了。
    Tomas By
    2018-01-11 12:18:28 UTC
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    罪魁禍首蘇沃洛夫(海軍學院出版社,2008年,第248-9頁)

    高利科夫對明顯錯誤情報的有罪不罰一直使我個人擔心很久,直到我參加在GRU學院講課。後來,當我在GRU的中央機構工作時,發現對這個答案的確認。

    Golikov曾經向斯大林報告希特勒沒有為與蘇聯的戰爭做準備。事實證明,由於希特勒沒有做好準備,戈利科夫正在向斯大林報告真相。戈利科夫知道斯大林不信任文件。戈利科夫也不信任他們。因此,他尋找其他指標,這些指標將毫不動搖地表示希特勒開始為與蘇聯開戰的時刻。沒有做任何準備。因此,斯大林沒有理由懲罰戈利科夫。戈利科夫竭盡全力發現了德國的戰爭準備。他告訴斯大林沒有任何準備工作,這是事實。德國軍隊只有大量的集結。戈利科夫(Golikov)發出指示,並非所有的德國師都必須成為關注的對象,而只有那些準備入侵的師。這些部門的倉庫中有15,000件羊皮大衣。整個國防軍中根本沒有這樣的師準備戰鬥。

    這讓我感到很有趣,但很奇怪。 “情報部門負責人選擇了即將襲擊的錯誤指示,卻錯過了襲擊。你怎麼能責怪*他*是因為敵人沒有按照他的預期去做?”很有意思的報價。俄羅斯方面不是我所熟悉的領域-俄羅斯歷史學家仍在努力使斯大林的錯誤合理化嗎? (令我震驚的是,他們最好譴責他和他的奴才,並慶祝儘管斯大林而奮鬥並贏得勝利的人民。)
    @MarkOlson:很好,我一點也不相信冬天的衣服那麼重要,或者說綿羊是製造它們的唯一方法,但是顯然斯大林認為戈利科夫沒有做錯任何事情。
    所以它看起來!我需要花時間閱讀有關斯大林職業生涯的更多信息。
    @MarkOlson-人們會想像,在侮辱斯大林對您的健康有害的時代,從該方獲得的許多第一手資料都被刪除了。
    user32582
    2018-07-12 23:47:20 UTC
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    因為他正忙於攻擊羅馬尼亞

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_occupation_of_Bessarabia_and_Northern_Bukovina

    其他牧師被蘇聯NKVD本身逮捕和審訊,然後驅逐到蘇聯內部並被殺害。關於該主題的研究仍處於早期階段。自2007年起,基督教東正教教堂已將to難授予約50名神職人員在蘇維埃統治的第一年(1940年至1941年)去世。[86

    pugsville
    2016-08-01 17:40:30 UTC
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    Stalin failed to be objective. Leaders of totalitarian regimes often seem to suffer from this defect. Stalin was the center of a system where he didn't need to be objective and that revolved around his wishes. Absolute power tends to erode one objectivity. The prevalence of yes men and a reluctance to bring evidence that the supreme leader, conclusions counter to the leader's desires are just not presented forcefully. Stalin was used to a situation where he could almost control the facts, reality for most Russians was what Stalin said it was, fear of Stalin was greater than fear of getting things wrong. Stalin didn't want to face the facts that the had got things wrong, the system he was the center of was very much an enabler of Stalin's desires.

    那麼“絕對力量會侵蝕一個客觀性”怎麼樣了?
    M. Petersen
    2016-08-03 19:44:04 UTC
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    希特勒不久前發現了一些信件,他在信中寫道斯大林說,他只是在英國皇家空軍無法到達他們的邊境建立了一支部隊。他還從幾位高級蘇維埃報導中獲悉希特勒會發動進攻,但也有一個說法相反,斯大林和一些高級蘇維埃部長(或某物)都相信希特勒的行為。害怕信任周圍的任何人。
    我必須在家中查找消息來源和名字。因此,如果第二天我有時間,我會發送給他們。

    紅軍曾計劃德國入侵,並準備發動反攻……並確實試圖從基輔執行該計劃。對於紅軍計劃為何失敗,我認為這仍然是一個非常有趣的猜測。它確實失敗了……不是因為缺乏嘗試。
    -1:此帖子非常需要校對。另外,OP已承諾提供引用,但未提供。
    Konstantin
    2017-09-25 15:11:23 UTC
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    沒人知道襲擊的確切日期。情報提供了不同的數據。然而,在6月初,潛在的動員開始了。部分師被派往邊境。斯大林正在等待入侵。他正在為國家做準備。斯大林相信希特勒?不,準備戰爭了嗎?是的,紅軍準備好了嗎?不不不。絕對不。整裝待發於1942年。斯大林對紅軍的失敗感到驚訝?我覺得不行。 “冬季戰爭”表明了圖哈切夫斯基軍事理論的錯誤。紅軍還沒有為戰爭做好準備。國防軍更強大。

    通過增加一些參考文獻“是”和“否”的答案,可以改善這一點。
    這是一個太大的話題。國防軍被完全動員了。紅軍只有10%的運輸量。許多砲兵單位沒有運輸工具。大多數“軍用運輸”是1.5噸或Zis-5(3噸)的廉價福特卡車。沒有運輸-沒有物流。
    情報服務。英雄拉姆齊給出了幾次入侵日期。一個日期或多或少不再重要。沒有確切的消息來源,但是斯大林發動了一場動員。證明是步槍師向邊界移動。順便說一句,在明斯克的國防軍遇到了部分師。


    該問答將自動從英語翻譯而來。原始內容可在stackexchange上找到,我們感謝它分發的cc by-sa 3.0許可。
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